Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

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Re: Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

Postby CBL on Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:46 pm

I'm guessing things are in the works to bring in a quality Center, so until the trade possibilities/talks dry up a bit, I can't imagine either Boedker or Turris being signed in the near future.

Another theory is that they are waiting until after the remaining arbitration hearings (notably Callahan, Hansen, Parise, and Comeau) conclude (August 4th) to determine the fair market value of younger forwards; after all it is easier to negotiate with some official salaries to base things on.
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Re: Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

Postby boedkersuperfan on Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:17 pm

CBL wrote:I'm guessing things are in the works to bring in a quality Center, so until the trade possibilities/talks dry up a bit, I can't imagine either Boedker or Turris being signed in the near future.

Another theory is that they are waiting until after the remaining arbitration hearings (notably Callahan, Hansen, Parise, and Comeau) conclude (August 4th) to determine the fair market value of younger forwards; after all it is easier to negotiate with some official salaries to base things on.


shouldn't need any of those other players arbitrations to get a fair price. can't imagine either boeds or turris getting over 1.5, and that's coming from their superfan! haha. just get a 1 year deal done already. i can't take this!
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Re: Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

Postby YotesFan47 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:48 pm

As far as Turris and Boedker, their resigning might be postponed until we iron out any trades for a #1 center. Likely one, if not both, would be in the mix for a #1 center. If Don is unable to find something just before camp I'm sure he will have them signed but until them I don't see them being put under contract. Aside from those 2 our biggest trade prospects would probably consist of Doan, Yandle, Gormley, and Ekman-Larsson. Doans presence on this team is immeasurable and chances are phoenix fans wouldn't see what we would want back for him but from a realistic standpoint we could get a lot back that could help the future of this club. I'm sure this sounds like blasphemy, and dont get me wrong, I would love to see Doan play our and retire from phoenix, however the return could be worth our while. Don't forget Doan will be a UFA come next summer and could decide to leave in his final years to a contender so we might as well get what we can for him and maybe he will come back next summer after trading him making us even more dangerous. With that in mind and the rumors I keep hearing about the Islanders and Phoenix talking here is what I would look to make a trade for.

To Phoenix: -$1.025 Million to cap hit
Frans Nielsen ($0.525 Million/1 season)
Michael Grabner ($3.0 Million/5 seasons)
Conditional 2012 4th (if Boedker signs in NY then we get it back)

To NY Islanders: +1.025 Million to cap hit (before Boedker signs)
Shane Doan ($4.55 Million/1 season)
Michael Boedker (RFA)

Reason for Phoenix:
Phoenix would get 2 young (Grabner 23, Nielsen 27) NHL proven players. Grabner just put up a 34 goal campaign with the Islanders and could help the Phoenix offense which is lacking. Nielsen is a bit older but is a quality 2nd line center who could push Kyle Turris for the 1st line job. Nielsen, like Doan is also coming up as a UFA in 2012.

Reason for NY Islanders:
While the Islanders would lose 2 of their proven NHL youth they would gain a leader in Doan that is rare in the NHL. His skill and knowledge is could be exactly what their team needs to further the development of their youth, and Doaner can still put up 60+ points a season. Boedker is a large, fast prospect that has not yet made an impact on the NHL but is showing great promise. His development could do great things for NY.

Added Info:

Now one of the things many of you may be thinking about is that neither team is in cap trouble, in fact both still need to spend to make the minimum but this leaves an opening for another trade/signing which actually helps the Coyotes a lot since they are going to be budgeted at the floor basically. Our next move would be to sign one of these FA's imo, Nikolay Zherdev and John Madden. We give Zherdev a 1 year $1 million contract and Madden a 1 year $1 million contract. With this we have added more depth at center, and an additional scorer who could potentially crack the top 6.

Phoenix Line-up:

Whitney - Turris - Grabner
Korpikoski - Nielsen - Stempniak
Torres - Hanzal - Vrbata
Zherdev - Gordon - Pyatt

Extra Forwards: Madden, Maclean, Bissonnette, Chipchura, Bulduc.
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Re: Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

Postby Kaibur on Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:57 pm

Doan has a full No Movement Clause, a family and a ranch in Arizona. What on earth would possibly convince him to waive to go basically farther away than any other market from his home? On top of which, it would decimate the remnants of loyalty among Arizona hockey fans and absolutely kill the fanbase going forward, virtually requiring a complete rebuild from the past 15 years. Not to mention throwing Boedker in. No way. Not even sort of.

I'd be much more open to making a move for Josh Bailey, particularly if Yashin ends up signing there. I'd include Maclean because I think there's potentially some appeal to reuniting Tavares and he and because he's out of waiver exemption and we've got too many wingers as it is.
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Re: Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

Postby YotesFan47 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:06 pm

I understand Doan has a no movement clause, a family, and a ranch in Arizona, the post was more of a what if. I think asking for Baily would be asking for too much and of course if we were to move Doan the only chance would be to a cup contender for that season to give him a chance to win a cup, after that he would most likely come back due to the reasons you mentioned Kaibur. I'm not sure how trading Doan would decimate the loyalty of Arizona hockey fans, especially if Don and Shane got up and publicly announced a rational reason for the move. I guess I rationalize it to the Bryz waver pickup, Burke told Bryz that he would give him a chance to be a teams #1 since there wasn't an opportunity for him in Anaheim so for us to give Doan the chance to win a cup is Phoenix giving back to someone who has been a big part of this organization and looking out for our players best interest. While the Islanders are in no way a cup contender (and as I mentioned earlier that trade was more of an interesting idea) the chance of Doan going to a team that is, is not unrealistic by any stretch. Also, we don't have much of a fan base as it is so there needs to be a strong rebuilding of the fan base campaign anyway. I don't see Yashin ending up in a NYI uni again, I guess it could happen but the Islanders bought him out for a reason. Anyway, my fault for not being more clear on this being an interesting trade rather than a realistic one.
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Re: Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

Postby Matzel on Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:18 pm

YotesFan47 wrote:As far as Turris and Boedker, their resigning might be postponed until we iron out any trades for a #1 center. Likely one, if not both, would be in the mix for a #1 center. If Don is unable to find something just before camp I'm sure he will have them signed but until them I don't see them being put under contract. Aside from those 2 our biggest trade prospects would probably consist of Doan, Yandle, Gormley, and Ekman-Larsson. Doans presence on this team is immeasurable and chances are phoenix fans wouldn't see what we would want back for him but from a realistic standpoint we could get a lot back that could help the future of this club. I'm sure this sounds like blasphemy, and dont get me wrong, I would love to see Doan play our and retire from phoenix, however the return could be worth our while. Don't forget Doan will be a UFA come next summer and could decide to leave in his final years to a contender so we might as well get what we can for him and maybe he will come back next summer after trading him making us even more dangerous. With that in mind and the rumors I keep hearing about the Islanders and Phoenix talking here is what I would look to make a trade for.

To Phoenix: -$1.025 Million to cap hit
Frans Nielsen ($0.525 Million/1 season)
Michael Grabner ($3.0 Million/5 seasons)
Conditional 2012 4th (if Boedker signs in NY then we get it back)

To NY Islanders: +1.025 Million to cap hit (before Boedker signs)
Shane Doan ($4.55 Million/1 season)
Michael Boedker (RFA)

Reason for Phoenix:
Phoenix would get 2 young (Grabner 23, Nielsen 27) NHL proven players. Grabner just put up a 34 goal campaign with the Islanders and could help the Phoenix offense which is lacking. Nielsen is a bit older but is a quality 2nd line center who could push Kyle Turris for the 1st line job. Nielsen, like Doan is also coming up as a UFA in 2012.

Reason for NY Islanders:
While the Islanders would lose 2 of their proven NHL youth they would gain a leader in Doan that is rare in the NHL. His skill and knowledge is could be exactly what their team needs to further the development of their youth, and Doaner can still put up 60+ points a season. Boedker is a large, fast prospect that has not yet made an impact on the NHL but is showing great promise. His development could do great things for NY.

Added Info:

Now one of the things many of you may be thinking about is that neither team is in cap trouble, in fact both still need to spend to make the minimum but this leaves an opening for another trade/signing which actually helps the Coyotes a lot since they are going to be budgeted at the floor basically. Our next move would be to sign one of these FA's imo, Nikolay Zherdev and John Madden. We give Zherdev a 1 year $1 million contract and Madden a 1 year $1 million contract. With this we have added more depth at center, and an additional scorer who could potentially crack the top 6.

Phoenix Line-up:

Whitney - Turris - Grabner
Korpikoski - Nielsen - Stempniak
Torres - Hanzal - Vrbata
Zherdev - Gordon - Pyatt

Extra Forwards: Madden, Maclean, Bissonnette, Chipchura, Bulduc.


Far out, man!

I am not sure that it is going to happen exactly like this but I appreciate the thought that went into this scenario. Great 1st post - welcome to the cc.net!
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Re: Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

Postby boedkersuperfan on Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:12 pm

yotesfan, welcome to the boards, but are you on crack?? ;)

just messing with ya, but why would either teams do that deal. just doesn't add up and i don't even feel i need to go into why. personally i'd love for boeds to go to the isles. anywhere but the yotes would give him more ice time than the boring defense first yotes and a coach who doesn't believe in young players. but that's just me beating a dead horse on here. you'll find that out.
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Re: Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

Postby Robert Earthpig on Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:51 pm

To Phoenix: -$1.025 Million to cap hit
Frans Nielsen ($0.525 Million/1 season)
Michael Grabner ($3.0 Million/5 seasons)
Conditional 2012 4th (if Boedker signs in NY then we get it back)

To NY Islanders: +1.025 Million to cap hit (before Boedker signs)
Shane Doan ($4.55 Million/1 season)
Michael Boedker (RFA)

So we get two guys who had good seasons last year for the premier power forward leader in the league and arguably the fasterst skater in the NHL and a guy with WAY more upside than ANY of the guys coming from the Island.
Uhmmm... NO.
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Re: Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

Postby CBL on Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:00 am

Looking at capgeek today, I noticed that the Sabres are currently 3.6 million over the cap. So, shall we take a look at their Centers to see if they'd be worth adding to the 'yotes roster for next year? Note: all stats are from this past season.

Roy | 28 yo | 5'9 | 184 lbs | 35 games | 10-25-35 | -1 | 4.0 million (2 more years)
Hecht | 34 yo | 6'1 | 198 lbs | 67 games | 12-17-29 | +4 | 3.525 million (1 more year)
Gaustad | 29 yo | 6'5 | 212 lbs | 67 games | 12-19-31 | +7 | 2.3 million (1 more year)
Gerbe | 24 yo | 5'5 | 178 lbs | 64 games | 16-15-31 | +11 | 1.433 million (3 more years)

Roy--I would definitely be interested in adding him to our lineup. Is he 1st line material? Maybe not, but we could try it out (or he'd at least push Turris).
Hecht--Might be worth the gamble although he is by no means a #1. Still a # 2 of Torres-Hecht-Vrbata sounds intriguing (as does a Whitney-Hecht-Doan line). Perhaps he just needs a change of scenery?
Gaustad--Could be an interesting addition. He seems similar to Hanzal (albeit 5 years older). Perhaps he could compete/push Hanzal to play on the 2nd?
Gerbe--Okay, admittedly he's a runt, but he still scored 31 points last season, so he can at least compete at the NHL level. I'm not sure where I see him in our lineup. I suppose he might be able to make the 2nd, but most likely he'd end up on the 4th (which may or may not be a good idea). I wouldn't be interested in him as a lone trade, but perhaps in a deal, he might be worth checking out.

Now, trade deals, I'm just guessing, but here goes:
BUF trades Roy to 'Yotes for MacLean, Boedker+ a prospect (or pick). this should save them about 1.7-2.2 million (depending on Boeds contract and whether or not Mac makes the lineup)
BUF trades Hecht to 'Yotes for Pyatt, Prospect, and a pick (2nd or 3rd). Saves them 2 million (okay we win big on this one)
BUF trades Gaustad & Gerbe to 'Yotes for Pyatt, Schlemko, and pick. Okay, this would be a slight steal, but they would save 1.1 million

Of course, they do have some tempting wingers available, so I suppose we could consider them as well, but we'd end up having to mix up our roster a bit. Wingers that may be promising:

Pominville (if we aren't on his no-trade list). 5.3 million (for 3 more seasons)--We'd probably have to give up Stempniak and Boedker for him, but it'd probably be worth it. In the end, it would save them about 2-3 million (depending on Boeds contract). They lose an excellent scorer, but gain 1 somewhat proven RW and a player with excellent potential. Of course this would probably move Doaner to the second line, but I'm sure he'd be fine with that if we added Pom.

Stafford. 4 million (4 more seasons)--He's young and could be useful on the 2nd line (moving Vrbata down to the 3rd with Hanzal). He might even push Doaner a bit more (not that he doesn't work hard as it is) for the first line slot. Stempniak would probably have to be thrown into this trade as well, but we'd get to keep Boedker. I would go with a Stempniak + MacLean OR Korpikoski +MacLean package. Of course, we could throw in an additional prospect or pick with either deal.

Boyes. 4.0 Million (1 season remaining)--I think he'd be a welcomed addition to the 'Yotes. Decent age, decent size, and good scoring ability. I could easily see him on the 1st or 2nd line. In terms of trade, perhaps a Stempniak & MacLean package would do it? This would save them roughly 1.4 million if MacLean makes their NHL line-up. If Mac doesn't earn a starting slot, it would save them 2.1 million.

I'm not sure if any of these offers are reasonable, but it's the best we can do. The main thing is that they have plenty of Centers, RWs, and D-men, so our offers would be limiting. Still, if MacLean was involved in any of the deals, I think he would actually earn a starting slot (3rd or 4th line) since they are currently short in the position (Vanek - Leino - Ennis - ?)
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Re: Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

Postby Matzel on Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:19 pm

Geez, quit throwing Korpi in with trade proposals, wouldcha? ;-) He is quite instrumental to the success of this team because he always brings his.lunch pale.
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Re: Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

Postby CBL on Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:11 pm

Matzel wrote:Geez, quit throwing Korpi in with trade proposals, wouldcha? ;-) He is quite instrumental to the success of this team because he always brings his.lunch pale.


If we are going to trade up, we'll have to give something in return. We honestly don't have many tradeable assets. Are you saying you'd rather have Korpikoski than Stafford? Last season he scored 52 points in 62 games; Korpikoski scored 49 points in 79 games. If Stafford would have played in as many games as Korpi, he would have helped the team much more than Korpi did (on the scoreboard). Let's say Stafford scored 13 points in the additional 17 games that Korpi played, that would total 65 points. Think back to how many games we lost due to low scoring, we probably would have made it to the second round.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming the sweep on Korpi (I think the goat wins that dubious honor). Honestly, I would rather keep Korpi in the long run, but Stafford would be a step up at the position for next season (I think Korpi will have roughly the same stats next season as he did the last--around 50 points).

Trust me, I'd rather see Stempniak go than Korpi, but which would you rather have? I'd take Korpi over Stempniak, hands down. I doubt other teams would be as willing to roll the dice on Stempniak as they would Korpi. Stemp did okay last season, but obviously his style of play doesn't fit our team's strategy since his output was his worst in 3 seasons. He just never quite showed up consistently, so I think he should move on to a more offensive-minded team. I think Buffalo would be a good fit for him there...
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Re: Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

Postby Kaibur on Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:36 pm

I'm still pushing for a move for Josh Bailey. He was picked the next pick after Boedker and he's played basically the entire time in the NHL while Boedker has bounced back and forth. He's RFA right now and he's probably good for 30 points at worst with a much higher ceiling and room to grow with our other young players. He played over 17 minutes per game last season, although he was a -13 on a non-playoff team. The Isles actually need to take on salary, but I'm not sure that's a huge factor. We've already got plenty of good young wingers on the cusp, and adding another young center in the same stage of development might be the best route.

Maclean, Rozsival and Philly's 3rd for Bailey & Nabokov. Then sign Campoli for about $2m on a one year.
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Re: Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

Postby Matzel on Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:08 am

Kaibur wrote:Maclean, Rozsival and Philly's 3rd for Bailey & Nabokov. Then sign Campoli for about $2m on a one year.


Please do send this idea off to GMDM because I think that's about the best we could hope for:

- get rid off Rozsi, who did not impress in his time in PHX;
- Trade MacLean, who has potential but it is questionable if he will ever develop into a legit scorer in the show;
- Philly's 3rd round draft pick could well be a late pick and at that spot most picks become a gamble;
- Bailey fits coach Tip's system to a 'T' - intelligent two-way player with scoring instincts and a decent pass - and only 21 years old;
- Nabokov is the veteran goalie who could instill the kind of confidence our previous Russian 'njetminder' gave the dogs - what's not to like? One of Smith / LaBarbara becomes expendable following training camp and pre-season for a depth player and/or a pick;

Unfortunately, I think if something seems too good to be true, it probably is. The Isles would probably not do this and who knows, Nabby may not even want to play in PHX, either...
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Re: Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

Postby Matzel on Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:11 am

CBL wrote:
Matzel wrote:Geez, quit throwing Korpi in with trade proposals, wouldcha? ;-) He is quite instrumental to the success of this team because he always brings his.lunch pale.


If we are going to trade up, we'll have to give something in return. We honestly don't have many tradeable assets. Are you saying you'd rather have Korpikoski than Stafford? Last season he scored 52 points in 62 games; Korpikoski scored 49 points in 79 games. If Stafford would have played in as many games as Korpi, he would have helped the team much more than Korpi did (on the scoreboard). Let's say Stafford scored 13 points in the additional 17 games that Korpi played, that would total 65 points. Think back to how many games we lost due to low scoring, we probably would have made it to the second round.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming the sweep on Korpi (I think the goat wins that dubious honor). Honestly, I would rather keep Korpi in the long run, but Stafford would be a step up at the position for next season (I think Korpi will have roughly the same stats next season as he did the last--around 50 points).

Trust me, I'd rather see Stempniak go than Korpi, but which would you rather have? I'd take Korpi over Stempniak, hands down. I doubt other teams would be as willing to roll the dice on Stempniak as they would Korpi. Stemp did okay last season, but obviously his style of play doesn't fit our team's strategy since his output was his worst in 3 seasons. He just never quite showed up consistently, so I think he should move on to a more offensive-minded team. I think Buffalo would be a good fit for him there...


Well... GMDM has a knack for getting something for nothing (Bryzgalov) but I agree that generally it takes a decent offer to get an attractive return. That said, Korpi would be among those (few) players I would rather not get rid of.
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Re: Forwards worth considering (for 2011-2012 'Yotes)

Postby Robert Earthpig on Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:21 pm

Bagging Nabokov would be a good move. Why wouldn't he want to play in Phoenix. He's looking at a one year deal regardless. Any goalie with a basic ego would see his chance to duplicate what Bryz did with a slightly better team in front.
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